Tips for navigating political divisions to find common ground at holiday gatherings

The presidential election laid bare political fault lines across the country, stark divisions that can be even more intense when they involve loved ones. William Brangham speaks with Jamil Zaki, a professor of psychology at Stanford University and author of “Hope for Cynics: The Surprising Science of Human Goodness,” for ways to handle post-election stress and find a little holiday season hope.
John Yang:
The presidential election laid bare political fault lines across the country. Stark divisions that can be even more intense when they involve loved ones. William Brangham looks at ways to handle this post-election stress and find a little holiday season hope.
William Brangham:
After an election, by definition, there’s a winner and there’s a loser. Triumph one side, disappointment on the other. When those two sides exist within one family, though, that can complicate any Thanksgiving or holiday gathering.
My next guest has some ideas on how to navigate these tricky waters and how to find the good in others. Jamil Zaki is a professor of psychology at Stanford University and author of “Hope for Synics: The Surprising Science of Human Goodness.” Jamil Zaki, so good to have you on the program.
This has obviously been a tumultuous year, a very divisive election. How would you counsel someone who is potentially going to have a meal or a visit with someone who they might see as having completely contrarian views to their own? How would you counsel them to go about that?
Jamil Zaki, Stanford University:
I think first of all, let’s acknowledge that this is a hard season. It’s A hard season in general, but when you add political division, it becomes even harder. So I think it’s natural to feel that apprehension.
But I think oftentimes we assume that people we disagree with must be far more different from us than they really are. We assume they’re more extreme, more hateful, more anti-democratic. And I would say that replacing some of those assumptions with curiosity about what the people in our lives actually believe is a good place to start.
William Brangham:
So let’s say you are a little bit more certain that the person across the table does have starkly differing views. Do you think it’s a good idea for people to try to reach across the table metaphorically?
Jamil Zaki:
I think it depends how they’re reaching across. Oftentimes we try to reach across the table with a sharp left jab, focusing on trying to convince other people that we’re right and they’re wrong, or even that our opinions are morally superior to theirs.
Well, when people see that you’re trying to browbeat or convince them, guess what? They can tell. And their defenses go up. A much more powerful and connective way to reach across the table is not with statistics or opinions, but with stories.
So for instance, if somebody holds an opinion that’s really different from yours, you might ask, hey, how did you come to feel that way? Research finds that when we share stories with one another, we might not end up agreeing, but we respect each other’s positions more and often discover more common ground than we would otherwise.
William Brangham:
I mean, I hear everything that you are saying, but I know, you know also that sometimes people hold on to these beliefs. They will resist all of these entreaties to try to see goodness in the other, because if affirming to their own sense of self that they believe X.
Jamil Zaki:
I think that’s right. And it’s easier, though, to do that with strangers or with people that we’re not actually in contact with. If you ask folks, Democrats or Republicans, what do you think people on the other side are like, they hold on to their deep and often quite negative opinions about that other side in the abstract.
When you present them with a real human being who’s interested in them and wants to have a conversation, things often go differently. In my lab, we brought Republicans and Democrats together for Zoom conversations. After these conversations, we asked how did it go? And they said it was delightful and informative. They were shocked by how reasonable and open minded the person on the other side really was. And that lowered the temperature on their own disdain or even their own hatred for the other party.
William Brangham:
Do you think that there’s some broader societal good if we as individuals do this type of bridge building that you’re describing?
Jamil Zaki:
We have lost sight of so much common ground that most Americans actually share, even ideologically. We imagine because we’ve become so polarized and because the media often presents extreme versions of each side, that these sides have nothing in common.
If you look at people’s attitudes on real political issues, it actually turns out that most Americans agree on a lot, but we don’t discover that agreement if we never talk, if we avoid one another. So those conversations that we have over the holidays, they can help us build coalition, understand that there’s a lot that many Americans share and maybe start to figure out goals that we have in common and how we can work towards those goals.
William Brangham:
Are there other things that you would suggest that people do to try to bridge these rockier divides?
Jamil Zaki:
You know, the first thing that I would say is to just be a little bit humble about what you know and what you don’t know. You mentioned that in some cases I might know that my uncle or aunt has an opinion that’s really different from mine. And that’s true. Maybe I do know that about them, but I probably don’t know that much about how they came to have that opinion.
And I might not actually even be right. You know, there was a study that occurred right after the 2016 presidential election where researchers used geotagging to figure out where people were going for Thanksgiving dinner. And when people crossed from a Republican area to a Democratic one, or vice versa, they stayed at dinner for an hour less than if they were having dinner with people who agreed with them.
We work so hard to avoid one another that we often miss out on even knowing the people in our lives. So I guess I would just say that it’s important to know what we don’t know, and oftentimes that’s more than we want to admit.
William Brangham:
All right. Jamil Zaki of Stanford University, thank you so much.
Jamil Zaki:
Thanks very much, William. It was a pleasure.